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	<title>Comments on: When The Moon Hits Your Eye &#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html</link>
	<description>Scooping up science news and dropping it on your desk</description>
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		<title>By: Sweetwind</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-5377</link>
		<dc:creator>Sweetwind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-5377</guid>
		<description>When I first heard of &quot;Beagle 2,&quot; I thought I&#039;d missed one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I first heard of &#8220;Beagle 2,&#8221; I thought I&#8217;d missed one!</p>
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		<title>By: apsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-5264</link>
		<dc:creator>apsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-5264</guid>
		<description>Cost to orbit is one key to all of this. A re-invigorated US space program (or competition from other nations like China) should bring those costs way down. Technology incentives, tax breaks, prizes for commercial activity, etc. really should be a part of all this, not just a massive NASA investment. But one primary obstacle to lower cost to orbit is the lack of a market, right now - the last few years worldwide rocket launches have been only half what they were a decade ago. The US launch industry is half-dead right now, though Sea Launch (part owned by Boeing) seems to be doing quite well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cost to orbit is one key to all of this. A re-invigorated US space program (or competition from other nations like China) should bring those costs way down. Technology incentives, tax breaks, prizes for commercial activity, etc. really should be a part of all this, not just a massive NASA investment. But one primary obstacle to lower cost to orbit is the lack of a market, right now &#8211; the last few years worldwide rocket launches have been only half what they were a decade ago. The US launch industry is half-dead right now, though Sea Launch (part owned by Boeing) seems to be doing quite well.</p>
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		<title>By: jdoe</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-5133</link>
		<dc:creator>jdoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-5133</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;But building a large-scale orbital infrastructure and ignoring the Moon is probably not the right way to go.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If the goal is the ability to build large space objects, then why not address the problem directly? The major problem in space exploration as I see it is the cost of reaching the orbit. Why not work on that directly instead of going to the Moon? Cheap space vehicle or Clark&#039;s space elevator IMHO would be a LOT more useful than a Moon base. And would probably have similar costs.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>But building a large-scale orbital infrastructure and ignoring the Moon is probably not the right way to go.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>If the goal is the ability to build large space objects, then why not address the problem directly? The major problem in space exploration as I see it is the cost of reaching the orbit. Why not work on that directly instead of going to the Moon? Cheap space vehicle or Clark&#8217;s space elevator IMHO would be a LOT more useful than a Moon base. And would probably have similar costs.</p>
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		<title>By: apsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-4968</link>
		<dc:creator>apsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-4968</guid>
		<description>I agree that Mars is irrelevant to this particular issue; other people can argue their reasons for going to Mars.
&lt;p&gt;
But why the Moon? Once we&#039;re there, launching materials from the Moon for large-scale space construction takes far less energy than launching from Earth, and there&#039;s no atmosphere so you can launch at orbital speed from the surface if you want. It&#039;ll mean establishing mining and manufacturing facilities there, etc. Yes, that&#039;s not going to happen tomorrow - but the sooner we get back on the surface, the sooner the rest of this can happen.
&lt;p&gt;
You don&#039;t have to go back to the Moon to get space solar power of course. But building a large-scale orbital infrastructure and ignoring the Moon is probably not the right way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Mars is irrelevant to this particular issue; other people can argue their reasons for going to Mars.</p>
<p>
But why the Moon? Once we&#8217;re there, launching materials from the Moon for large-scale space construction takes far less energy than launching from Earth, and there&#8217;s no atmosphere so you can launch at orbital speed from the surface if you want. It&#8217;ll mean establishing mining and manufacturing facilities there, etc. Yes, that&#8217;s not going to happen tomorrow &#8211; but the sooner we get back on the surface, the sooner the rest of this can happen.
</p>
<p>
You don&#8217;t have to go back to the Moon to get space solar power of course. But building a large-scale orbital infrastructure and ignoring the Moon is probably not the right way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: jdoe</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-4784</link>
		<dc:creator>jdoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-4784</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;1 - Fission is too expensive.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ll double check, but as far as I know, fission is the second cheapest to hydro. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;we have a WMD problem in the world&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You have WMD problem? I see JWB has this same problem too. Must be contageous :-). But seriously. So far it has not been confirmed. Not even close. Could it be the same problem as the man-made global warming?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;2 - Fusion, unfortunately, is still in a &quot;which reactor design will work&quot; mode&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;OK, ok, so it does not exist yet. Where can I see the space-based solar power plant?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Why go to space for solar power?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s not my question. I have not seen anyone asking this particular question. Why are you answering it? My question was why do you need to go to the Moon or Mars for solar power? Let&#039;s make it simple. What&#039;s the point in going to the Moon?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>1 &#8211; Fission is too expensive.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ll double check, but as far as I know, fission is the second cheapest to hydro. </p>
<blockquote><p><i>we have a WMD problem in the world</i></p></blockquote>
<p>You have WMD problem? I see JWB has this same problem too. Must be contageous :-). But seriously. So far it has not been confirmed. Not even close. Could it be the same problem as the man-made global warming?</p>
<blockquote><p><i>2 &#8211; Fusion, unfortunately, is still in a &#8220;which reactor design will work&#8221; mode</i></p></blockquote>
<p>OK, ok, so it does not exist yet. Where can I see the space-based solar power plant?</p>
<blockquote><p><i>Why go to space for solar power?</i></p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s not my question. I have not seen anyone asking this particular question. Why are you answering it? My question was why do you need to go to the Moon or Mars for solar power? Let&#8217;s make it simple. What&#8217;s the point in going to the Moon?</p>
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		<title>By: apsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-4558</link>
		<dc:creator>apsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-4558</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;d actually read the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciscoop.com/story/2004/1/8/204529/3366&quot;&gt;global warming&lt;/a&gt; story, you&#039;d have your answers...
&lt;p&gt;
*1 - Fission is too expensive. The French don&#039;t have many other options, and heavily subsidize it. All US reactors were subsidized too - they stopped building them 25 years ago because of the expense (you could blame the expense on the environemntal review process, but still, it&#039;s there). Also, supplying non-fossil energy needs this century with fission would require multiplying the number of reactors worldwide by about a factor of 10, and (unless we found new ways to mine uranium from very low grade ores or seawater) would require breeder reactors and fuel reprocessing as well. Think we have a WMD problem in the world right now? What would it be like with 100&#039;s of times more plutonium being extracted from spent fuel?
&lt;p&gt;
*2 - Fusion, unfortunately, is still in a &quot;which reactor design will work&quot; mode, and these are pretty major questions. The tokomak design, on which the multi-billion dollar ITER project is based, has magnetic coils on the inside of the plasma; these will be destroyed by radiation in too short a period of time to be useful for a commercial reactor; in fact the ITER project isn&#039;t even planning to use real fuel (deuterium-tritium, rather than deuterium-deuterium) until almost the end of the project, to avoid this problem. There are proposed solutions with &quot;liquid walls&quot; and spherical designs, and then there are the various intertial designs. Replicating the sun on the Earth is going to be exceedingly difficult and expensive, at least for the next 50 years or so.
&lt;p&gt;
Why go to space for solar power? Sunlight 24x365. On Earth in the average location you get the equivalent of full sun just 2-3 hours/day. Even the best locations get only about 5-6 hours/day worth. Currently the cost of solar photovoltaics is prohibitive, but in space you wouldn&#039;t need nearly as much of them. Of course the cost of launch is too high too, but at least people are hoping there are solutions to that problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;d actually read the <a href="http://www.sciscoop.com/story/2004/1/8/204529/3366">global warming</a> story, you&#8217;d have your answers&#8230;</p>
<p>
*1 &#8211; Fission is too expensive. The French don&#8217;t have many other options, and heavily subsidize it. All US reactors were subsidized too &#8211; they stopped building them 25 years ago because of the expense (you could blame the expense on the environemntal review process, but still, it&#8217;s there). Also, supplying non-fossil energy needs this century with fission would require multiplying the number of reactors worldwide by about a factor of 10, and (unless we found new ways to mine uranium from very low grade ores or seawater) would require breeder reactors and fuel reprocessing as well. Think we have a WMD problem in the world right now? What would it be like with 100&#8217;s of times more plutonium being extracted from spent fuel?
</p>
<p>
*2 &#8211; Fusion, unfortunately, is still in a &#8220;which reactor design will work&#8221; mode, and these are pretty major questions. The tokomak design, on which the multi-billion dollar ITER project is based, has magnetic coils on the inside of the plasma; these will be destroyed by radiation in too short a period of time to be useful for a commercial reactor; in fact the ITER project isn&#8217;t even planning to use real fuel (deuterium-tritium, rather than deuterium-deuterium) until almost the end of the project, to avoid this problem. There are proposed solutions with &#8220;liquid walls&#8221; and spherical designs, and then there are the various intertial designs. Replicating the sun on the Earth is going to be exceedingly difficult and expensive, at least for the next 50 years or so.
</p>
<p>
Why go to space for solar power? Sunlight 24&#215;365. On Earth in the average location you get the equivalent of full sun just 2-3 hours/day. Even the best locations get only about 5-6 hours/day worth. Currently the cost of solar photovoltaics is prohibitive, but in space you wouldn&#8217;t need nearly as much of them. Of course the cost of launch is too high too, but at least people are hoping there are solutions to that problem.</p>
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		<title>By: jdoe</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-4271</link>
		<dc:creator>jdoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-4271</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s the advantage of space-based solar power compare to nuclear fission, keeping in mind that one exists and the other does not? What&#039;s the advantage over fusion? Both don&#039;t exist. Why do you need to go to the Moon or Mars for solar power?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s the advantage of space-based solar power compare to nuclear fission, keeping in mind that one exists and the other does not? What&#8217;s the advantage over fusion? Both don&#8217;t exist. Why do you need to go to the Moon or Mars for solar power?</p>
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		<title>By: gypsysoul</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-3927</link>
		<dc:creator>gypsysoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-3927</guid>
		<description>LOL on &lt;strong&gt;remote locations&lt;/strong&gt;-- The link&#039;s a nice plug, but it needs updating! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL on <strong>remote locations</strong>&#8211; The link&#8217;s a nice plug, but it needs updating!</p>
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		<title>By: gypsysoul</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-3477</link>
		<dc:creator>gypsysoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-3477</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reminder of the true origin of the name Beagle. &#160;Of course, you know that all of us Americans knew the name of Darwin&#039;s ship at some point in our lives :-)... but the fact became lost in the mind-maze of other beagles, mainly Charlie Brown&#039;s best friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reminder of the true origin of the name Beagle. &nbsp;Of course, you know that all of us Americans knew the name of Darwin&#8217;s ship at some point in our lives :-)&#8230; but the fact became lost in the mind-maze of other beagles, mainly Charlie Brown&#8217;s best friend.</p>
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		<title>By: apsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.sciscoop.com/2004-1-10-21450-7518.html/comment-page-1#comment-2892</link>
		<dc:creator>apsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/~arielschwartz/wordpress/sciscoop/?p=676#comment-2892</guid>
		<description>funnily enough, one of the guards on the building accosted us on the way in, accusing us of pushing the government to waste our money. He asked what good was space for. My quick answer (which many who&#039;ve read my other articles here might have guessed) - solar energy. When the oil in Iraq runs out, we&#039;ll need to turn somewhere - space solar energy is a vast untapped resource for us; it&#039;ll make a huge difference to the future of our nation, if we can capture some of those resources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funnily enough, one of the guards on the building accosted us on the way in, accusing us of pushing the government to waste our money. He asked what good was space for. My quick answer (which many who&#8217;ve read my other articles here might have guessed) &#8211; solar energy. When the oil in Iraq runs out, we&#8217;ll need to turn somewhere &#8211; space solar energy is a vast untapped resource for us; it&#8217;ll make a huge difference to the future of our nation, if we can capture some of those resources.</p>
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