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Two Roads Diverged In A Yellow Wood…

Totalitarianism Thursday, May 27, 2004 . This is a SciScoop post by Ricky James

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This Memorial Day is an especially good time to think about Robert Frost.  You see, Al Gore delivered a truly remarkable and impassioned speech at New York University this week, and Rush Limbaugh has responded in kind.  Every American should read every word of both…and think hard about the paths that have been chosen.  There are watershed moments in history that affect our very civilization.  I fear we are rapidly approaching such a nexus, a societal black hole.  Worth thinking about.    

5 Responses to Two Roads Diverged In A Yellow Wood…

mtigges

May 28th, 2004 at 12:42 pm

Rush Limbaugh is an idiot, a shrewd idiot. But that his deception is planned rather than just the result of ignorance does not excuse his idiocy.

Here are some relevant sections of the Geneva Convention (read the full deal here: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm). Very few of the detainees have taken an active part in any hostilities. They were picked up at checkpoints. (Read all of Rickys links.)


Article 3

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

Article 4 defines a POW, the relevant paragraph follows:


6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

Articles 13..16 in Part 2 are wrt the treatment of POW’s:


Article 13

Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

Article 14

Prisoners of war are entitled in all circumstances to respect for their persons and their honour. Women shall be treated with all the regard due to their sex and shall in all cases benefit by treatment as favourable as that granted to men. Prisoners of war shall retain the full civil capacity which they enjoyed at the time of their capture. The Detaining Power may not restrict the exercise, either within or without its own territory, of the rights such capacity confers except in so far as the captivity requires.

Article 15

The Power detaining prisoners of war shall be bound to provide free of charge for their maintenance and for the medical attention required by their state of health.

Article 16

Taking into consideration the provisions of the present Convention relating to rank and sex, and subject to any privileged treatment which may be accorded to them by reason of their state of health, age or professional qualifications, all prisoners of war shall be treated alike by the Detaining Power, without any adverse distinction based on race, nationality, religious belief or political opinions, or any other distinction founded on similar criteria.

The purpose of the Geneva Convention is to protect detainees, among whom are POW’s. There is no other way to see it that the Geneva Convention has been violated. Contrary to Limbaughs assertion that the Geneva Convention does not protect terrorists, it makes no distinction between a member of a national armed force and an unorganized armed individual in the definition of a POW.

I feel passionately about all of this. I don’t live in America, but very near to it, near enough that its political landscape draws consequence upon my quality of life. Nevertheless, this site is not the appropriate forum for this information.

Ricky, you are a valuable source of information on this topic because you are passionate enough to dig it up for us. But quite frankly its dissimination here is at best off-topic at worst ignored. Let us know when you are also writing for a forum more germain to political commentary.

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barakn

May 29th, 2004 at 10:15 pm

…. this site is not the appropriate forum for this information. …. But quite frankly its dissimination here is at best off-topic at worst ignored. Let us know when you are also writing for a forum more germain to political commentary.

You voted for it anyway.

But while we’re discussing it, I’d like to point out the last part of Article 5:


….Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

I’m guessing the guys in the naked pyramid didn’t get their tribunal, and they certainly didn’t “enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined….”

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mtigges

May 31st, 2004 at 10:05 am

I think Ricky does a good service digging this stuff and compiling links coherently together. It may be because I share his point of view, but he seems unbiased in it as well. Presenting links to both/all sides.

So on the vote, I’d like it to be read, so I think I voted for it to go to the section page, no? It’s certainly not worth dumping.

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yrrebnarg

June 2nd, 2004 at 2:41 pm

This is going to hang in limbo until it gets ejected, most likely to the “almost made it” bar, in which case it will hang around for about 20 times what it would have if it had gone to the front page. Does anyone else think that this is a bit screwed up?

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Drog

June 2nd, 2004 at 7:31 pm

There’s supposed to be a time limit, but the variable is missing from our engine. We need to fix it. I’ll see what I can do. We will switch over to version 1.0 of Scoop as soon as it’s release, which should be soon.

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